www.DELIJE.net

[Nottingham Forest RedStar]

As A Nottingham Forest Fan I would like to know, What are the links between Olympiakos and Red Star, where was such mutual respect born and how long has this relationship existed? What is it's history?

One of the most fasinating aspects of Red Star is it's Political History and Affiliations, something, sadly, missing from English Football but which I and many others, would like to see developed. Is this Polical involvement as deep as in Italian Football and is it sanctioned and encouraged by the Club?

English Football rarely has such Alliances, though many Fans across the country have an alligence to Rangers or Celtic in Scotalnd based loosely upon Sectarian/Religious Grounds.

the more I learn the more I am looking forward to visiting Belgrade in September and watching them beat Partizan

[Hatori Hanzo]

Hello Nottingham. My english is not so good but i will try to answer you to understand.

Olympiakos Gate 7 and Red Star Delije start friendship in 1986 when Red Star played against Panatinaikos and brothers from Gate 7 camed to suport us and our club. From that time, friendship start growing and become brotherhood, realy big, honest and serios. Serbs and Greeks are both ortodoxian, we call us (both groups) Ortodox Brothers, thats very important for us! This brotherhood is very serios thing and it is hard to explane it easly here in onley few words.

About politic moment. You mention Italy but i think that you are wrong about it. Of course, there is a lot going on about politic on Italian stadiums, but that is mostley not real thing, its mostly showing off. Its simple - what they have realy done? Its noting serios if few tousend people rise right hand in the air, that dont meen that you have few tousends fashist there, and even les that those few thousends people are doing something in that political way. You see, we are not envolved in politic cose we like that, it is becose we are living in Serbia. Our contrey and nation was in very big danger in past, as well as today. Geograficly, this part of the world is betwen two continents, betwen east and the west. Thats why we have been in so many wars in past. Many whanted to have this teritory and to assimilate Serbs, to erase us from this world. Ofcourse, that is imposible and we are rising always to stand up for our nation. It is very long story, but i will try to say it short. After second world war, comunists camed to rule in Serbia, and Serbia have allready been in Yugoslavia (unity of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians, where more than half teritory and population have been Serbian - that unity was establisher after first w.w.). That is very very dark period of Serbian history. Red Star is found in 1945. Red Star groups started showing in 70es. In that period it was very dangerous and almost emposible to say anything against comunist regim and ofcourse to be nationalist. They have killing and sending people in prisons for very small reasons. First anti-komunist and pro-royal and pro-natinal things happend in stadiums. In 70es it was onley some songs, but after in 80es that become also more rebelian thing and many incidents hapend based on this. There are many stories and so much to say, but i dont have time to write history here and my english is bad for that. In 80es, it was still very dangerous to be nationalist but anyway in stadiums many things hapend. Even many people think that war ectually started in stadium, when we played in Zagreb against Dinamo, in 1991. Hateness betwen Red Star and teams from Croatia was mostley on national level. When war started, almost all most important men from Delije went to the war, they formed one military group called Tigers. Many of them gave their lifes for our contrey. Those who are alive today are still on North terace with other guys from Delije. After war in Bosnia and Croatia, Delije fight against regim of Slobodan Milosevic who was terible dictator and who leed us in this wars and after on Kosovo, but lost them after batles, Serbs won on front, he lost them on diplomatic meetings. So, Serbian people was pisted off abot this and many many people protesting in the streets, fighting with Milosevics police etc. Many of those tings started in stadium, and in streets in many cases Delije and some other firms have been in front lines of batles.
I tryed to say to you onley few words to have a peace of whole picture. Thats why i tell to you that this is real thing going on here, it is not rising hands and showing of with some baners and things like that. Thats for kids. For example, Lazio suporters had baner about Arkan and Tigers (when Arkan was killed), and some games after they had Croatian flag on their terace That is when you are doing something which you dont realy belive in, childes play. And many other examples.
We are envolved in things which are happening for real, here and now. We are onley doing what we have to do. So, you can expect more from us unfortunatly, today we have crises in our holy land of Kosovo in Serbia. Also western world is trying very hard to destroy our nationality, our cultur with Ortodox religion (specialy). So, we have so much to do and we dont have so big power to make big things. But we are always in good mood to stand on first line to difend our contrey and we gonna use this cose this is les what we can do.

You asked about our club and sanctiones?! I dont understand, that is our club and ofcourse its gonna be like we wants. Stuff of the club is onley stuff, they are not realy the club. They can not dicide what we gonna do or not.

I am also sad to see that English lads are not envolved in enything, that is very bad. So bad things are happening there and you dont do anything about this. For example, when those gays had first marige in England, you had to go there and make big riot. Its not good to onley look on those things, othervise what is your poprose of beeing? We have our one way of life, that is "our thing" of course, but there are some things when you must take your role in events which are going on in your environment.

For the end, you should know that we are also started friendship with Spartac from Moscow, and in near future we gonna have big Ortodox coalition all together.

Now, someone can translate this mesage in english
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Један ЅМЅ за један оброк гладнима на Косову и Метохији 064 или 065 - 1033
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTATSBVas3A

[Stella e basta!]

Hatori, брате, што трошиш енергију на овако небитног лика?

[муња]

Slazem se da mozda ne treba svakog stranca uzimati za ozbiljno ali ako neko lepo pita ne znam sto mu ne bi bilo odgovoreno, jedino ako to nije u skladu sa pravilima foruma .
Ali s druge strane mislim da ce ovaj tekst dobro doci onima kojima je ovaj podforum namenjen i koju jos nisu dovoljno informisani o pozadini/korenima prijateljstva/bratstva.

Predlazem da se postavi i neka "lepljiva" tema, kao sto su npr. veteranske price na Navijackom podforumu, i moglo bi da se pise o istoriji prijateljstva sa Gate7, postavljati slike i izvestaje sa gostovanja i drugih utakmica gde su navijaci oba kluba bila zajedno, jer ima dosta "materijala", koji je "razbijen" na topike koji stoje sami za sebe, pa je malo teze to pronaci u arhivi
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Догодине у Призрену!

www.fondacijadelije.org

[Hatori Hanzo]

Управо као што је муња и написао, ко год био тај лик, озбиљан или неозбиљан, поставио је интересантна питања које могу послужити и многим другима као одговор.
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Један ЅМЅ за један оброк гладнима на Косову и Метохији 064 или 065 - 1033
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTATSBVas3A

[УлтрасЛондон]

I wrote this on the message board of our brothers from London and I belive it has some relevance to the question - at least one part of it, about the support for RSFC.

It starts with the story about the hotel in London
Ravna Gora hotel has been established by Serbian immigrants after the World War II. Those immigrants were Serbian royalists/nationalists fleeing the country after the WWII victory of communist partisans, as during the war there was a civil war as well. Throughout the decades to follow communists under Tito have been creating horrible image of those royalists - better known as chetniks. Tito's government went so far in their lies that according to them chetniks were equally bad as Croatian fascists who were responsible for deaths of many thousands of Serbian civilian lives. Also, Tito's secret police tried their best to extinguish the chetnik movement abroad. It was brutally sanctioned, until the fall of communism, to present the chetnik movement as truly patriotic movement in Serbia.

Red Star Belgrade supporters, great Serbian patriots and anti-communists, throughout the years were very often showing chetnik symbols on the terraces, which in years of communism led to arrests and other means of police repression.

Ravna Gora was the place in Serbia from where chetniks were operating and that is why the movement was often known as Ravna Gora movement (Ravnogorski pokret). That is why the hotel was named Ravna Gora and it is our honour to have such place in London, as a symbol of hope for Serbia through the years of communist Yugoslavia. It is a place where many Serbs gather to watch sport events, in past couple of years mainly Red Star fans and it is our honour to have our Orthodox brothers, G7, there as well to watch our great teams and to share happiness or sadness (and beer) together as one!

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About Tito
Yes, some people say that he couldn't speak the language, I can certainly remember that he talked "funny", but so do all people from where he is from (Croatia, near Slovenia).

Good question is also, how could Yugoslavia stay non-aligned after the division of Europe between USSR and USA, did Tito wave his magic stick, as his followers wish to think, or was there something else.

Let's stick to what is definite and what affected us and that is the complete destruction of anything Serbian, for the sake of "Brotherhood & Unity" in communist Yugoslavia. Making equal ustashi movement with chetniks, is one example, to go back to the story about Ravna Gora.

So the years after the WWII were years of absolute communist rule in every aspect of society form economy to playing marbles, those were the dark times as all values of pre-war society (and there were more then few) were destroyed. It was only in later decades that Yugoslavia was more liberal - titoists will argue that we lived better then Romanians and Bulgarians or other Eastern European countries, we certainly have, as we were not under the boot of Stalin - but who wants to be compared with them?! Why not with Italy or Greece? Why we didn't live like Portuguese? Certainly our economy was more then capable to reach those standards and beyond.

Normally, there was a revolt among people but it was extinguished brutally by regime. However, as in such instances the revolt has to be in disguise, support something that indirectly represents your believes. That is how people started supporting one football team that, even though, it was named by communists and created by them (as anything was), became symbol of struggle against the regime - Red Star FC. FC Partizan was the army club, very much privileged, Red Star (even though established by police) slowly became people's club, as it success on the football ground against "the mighty" Partizan was a glimps of hope for the people. It represented everything repressed: cosmopolitan, urban spirit of Belgrade, traditional values, anti-communism, Serbian patriotism - as the religion was forbidden, people used to say: "If you can not celebrate your family saint, at least support Red Star FC!"

Red Star was loved not just by Serbs, there wasn�t a single football club loved by entirely Croats or Serbs or Muslims in Bosnia (probably only Dinamo Zagreb was purely Croatian) - BUT we all new what Red Star represent and it was great satisfaction to the people when Red Star beats its opponents and truly it always have, when we needed the most. Having said that, about some non-Serbs supporting RSFC it is insignificant in compare with how many non-Serbs supported Partizan, as well as those Serbs supporting them were pro-regime often. For instance, Albanians in Kosovo, would never support Red Star, on the other hand I can definitely say 90% Serbs living in Croatia supported Red Star, many many Serbs living in Bosnia as well. Never, ever did the Albanian played for RSFC, on the contrary their best players would always end up in Partizan. Franjo Tudjman president of Croatia, who led them through the recent war, was Tito�s general and the president of Partizan FC!!!


Hard-core Partizan supporters were also pro-Serb, some of them were fighting along side Red Star fans as the volunteers in the last war, some sadly died in the war - but more then a few of their main leaders were members of Milosevic’s wife’s party!

Our ideology was always more clear then of those on the black and white side of the stadium.

I do not know if people are interested in what I am writing, but I believe that it is crucial for our frendship that people know things about each other. I you want me to continu to write important facts or have any questions, please do tell me.

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Support Yugoslavia!?!?!?!?!
Big mistake. It is true that some Red Star fans were at the stadium supporting Yugoslavia, but generally RS fans do NOT support national team.

We must distinguish "ordinary fan" from "someone from the crew"- someone who follows RS against any club, big or small and goes to away match against any team, anywhere. Those that were at the Euro 00, were ordinary fans - not even them, but i.e. workers in Germany/Holland/Belgium of Serbian origin who put on the RS tops and scarves twice that year - then and for the New Year when they are really drunk. They are not real RS fans.
Real fans - those that watch RS all the time, not just members of groups [Ultras, Ultra Boys, Brigate, Heroes, Belgrade Boys, Ultra Klan (Europe), Othodox Boys (Slovenia) and some from different towns in Serbia] so, not just them, but the fans that are "in the know" would never support national team. Groups they do not support, individuals might go to the game, but organized support from the RS fans to the national team does not exist!

Reason behind this is that the symbols of communist Yugoslavia are still used for the national team as they are official symbols of the state. Our flag is without the symbol of communism, but it is still blue-white-red, while Serbian is red-blue-white and the national anthem is communist one. We hate these symbols as we suffered under them, we will never celebrate a team that plays under those symbols. Yes, RS players might play for the national team � BUT WHO ARE THEY? Someone who will next year play in Italy, Spain, in Greece for AEK??? Someone who will get drunk and take a picture with Partizan scarf, just like Stankovic (former RS, now Inter M.) did, when he hugged Savo Milosevic who wore RS scarf (former Partizan)? How pathetic and disgusting. Red Star is more than individuals playing for the team. Our players do not swap tops with Partizan after the derby. Rarely players form one club play for another if they do it is a huge news.

That is why it is impossible to see real RS and Partizan fans supporting together at the stadium. In few instances there might be temporary peace between us - like when Bosnia was playing Serbia, or when Croats are in town, but never for the national team, we will see what is going to happen when the symbols are changed.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE-f-Ng_cUA

[Nottingham Forest RedStar]

Thank you for the time and effort many of you have made to explain the history of Red Star. I have always been facinated by the links between Football and politics. Such alliances do not really exist in English Football. Rangers and the other Glasgow team are probably the closest, in having Political / Religious Affiliations in Great Britian, and many English Club "firms" have some alligance to one or the other but nowhere near to the extent you have in your Country.

Whilst Red Star is a famous name in World Football, they probably came to prominence in the UK through the coverage given to "Arkan's Tigers" against the Islamist during the last War and the fact that much of that unit was formed from the Red Star fan base.

Many of our firms in England are Anti Islamic but that is pushed aside when it comes to facing other Firms in the League.

Nottingham Forest are still a firm to be reckoned with, although we have fallen from grace recently and we are now a Division 3 side but still travel in numbers approaching 5000 - 6000 to most away games with our average Home gate being around 20,000

I have been told that the culture of your Football and Club is different to what we are used to in England and that actions on the Terraces are coreographed, even the Terrace singing and the display of banners and flags has to be approved by "Senior" Members of the Firm. Does that mean that if we were to bring a Banner we would be stopped from dispalying it?. We were thinking of comissioning a Special Banner featuring both the the Nottingham Forest and Red Star Logos to display at the game. Would that be acceptable or would we need to seek permission and approval?

The more we learn the more we are looking forward to our trip and hope it leads to many more in the future. There is a great deal of interst from our friends in what we are doing and many have expressed an interest in joining us for futher visits to your games in the future

We look forward to learn more about Red Star in the coming weeks while we prepear for our Trip

Thank You

Keith

[Амбасадор]

I don't think you'd be allowed to display any kind of banner, not because "Delije" have anything against Notts Forest, but because it would be disrespectful towards out Orthodox Brothers. We only display banners of our own, or of our Orthodox Brothers. That's tradition and sign of our brotherhood.

But I'm sure you'll enjoy the visit to Marakana and Belgrade.
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Мила мајко не жени ме млада,
кад ме жени Рачића бригада.

[Hatori Hanzo]

[alex-gate7london]

i think that's common sense, i don't think you could walk into any stadium in the world and just put up a banner of another team, especially with teams with strong support.
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OLYMPIAKOS LONDON CLUB
ON TOUR SINCE 1992